SAYCE / SAY Y-chromosome DNA Testing Project
Bob New, May 2009 (now deceased).
Introduction
The Y-chromosome is passed by inheritance from father to son, as is (usually) the surname. Therefore the Y-chromosome of a man today should be the same as, or recognisably similar to, his ancestor - the man who first took that surname. Naturally, in the course of time “non-paternal events” can occur (adoption, illegitimacy, etc.) but previous testing experience shows it to be not too much of a problem.
Testing
We are established as a Surname Project with FamilyTreeDNA of America www.FamilyTreeDNA.com (the University of Arizona actually does the testing) and enjoy their discount rates. The test kit consists of a cheek scraper and collection tubes, and the procedure is similar to brushing teeth except that you scrape the inside of your cheek. You do it at home, so you don’t have to go anywhere, and return the samples in an envelope to Houston. Quite recently Ancestry.com (www.ancestry.com) and DNA Heritage (www.dnaheritage.com) have entered the market and the cost of testing is now markedly lower. Other companies offer similar services.
The Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation – www.smgf.org – invites volunteers to provide a DNA sample (a mouth wash) and pedigree complete for at least four generations. There is no charge (except for postage), but the volunteer does not get informed of their result although in due course (up to 2 years!) that should appear in Sorenson’s database.
The genes on chromosomes are separated by regions of inactive DNA, parts of which have short DNA sequences (2 to 6 bases) repeated several times. These are known as STRs (Short Tandem Repeats). Past research has identified a number of these (12, 25 or more) on the Y-chromosome which are useful for genealogy – as on the following chart. It is the number of repeats at each ‘locus’ that is counted. The rate of mutational change is estimated to be approximately 1 change per 500 generations for each locus, with those in red (see Chart) perhaps faster. A 25/25 match with the same surname indicates a recent common ancestor; 24/25 and 23/25 matches with the same surname indicate more remote common ancestors.
Expectations
It is said that in medieval times Norman ‘Marcher’ Lords moved some of their English tenants to lands in their territories in the Welsh Marches to increase their grip on them. These were lands regularly fought over by the competing Welsh and Normans. The English tenantry would have been easily designated as ‘Sais’. Tracing a line of descent is in practice impossible – records don’t exist and probably never existed. Heraldry tells an interesting tale. In North Wales Sir Gregory Sais d.1390, son of Cynwrig Sais ab Ithel Fychan, bore the arms az. ten plates 4, 3, 2, 1, on a chief or a demi-lion issuent gu. In South Wales (Glam.) Roger Seys c.1539-1599, Attorney General for Wales, and the first of 4 generations at Boverton bore the same arms (but with 6 plates) quartered 1st and 4th with the arms 2nd and 3rd (sa. a chevron between three spear-heads imbrued arg.) of Bleddyn ap Maenarch, last prince of Brycheiniog (Brecknock). From whom Roger Seys descended in direct male line, via Einion Sais b.1230 who was 5 generations from Bleddyn (and 6 via his mother). John Says (otherwise Sayse/Saise) of Kilpeck (Herefordshire, mid-Wales) claimed the same arms (10 plates, as shown) in the Visitation of Hereford in 1634. His family held land in Kilpeck, Howton and Withington in Herefordshire from before 1532 until sold in 1712. This seems to be a tradition of “family” arms since they can’t all have descended from a single grantee. It would be interesting to see who Y-DNA would relate to whom.
For the SAY name, I think it would be too much to hope that the DNA signature of an original Norman knight could be identified. The vagaries of history dictate that the name will have passed via a female at some time, often because of land holdings. Identifying ‘branches’ of the family can be expected however; some may be validated by paper genealogies and others can be ‘useful to know’. The arms of the earliest feudal lords are shown. Have arms been used by SAYs since?
Although the tests are not specifically designed to identify our “Haplogroup(s)” they have for most of our members been R1b/HG1, the Paleolithic hunter/gatherers that populated Europe. The exception was E3b, a haplogroup originating in the Middle East and from their associated with the spread of agriculture. DNA studies using “slow moving markers” have traced patterns of human migration “out of Africa” over the passed 50,000 years.
Results from FamilyTreeDNA will be labelled with (capital) letters of the alphabet; from Ancestry.com with capital A and a numeral – the first will be A1 (I’ve started those from FTDNA with B); and from Sorenson with small Roman numerals, e.g. (i) will be for the first one. Identities of each contributor will be confidential until each agrees otherwise, such as when a match occurs.
The first two results are for the name SAY. C belongs to the R1b haplogroup commonest in Western Europe, as mentioned above.
The result should gain meaning when more are available for comparison. The result for B (whose origins are unknown to me) belongs unexpectedly (to me) to Haplogroup G2a. This is characteristic of the north Caucasus region, e.g. Georgia. In Europe it is usually less than 2% of the population. The DNA from the grandson of a prominent Georgian is offered for comparison. It doesn’t match.
References
2. Copy of project emailed by Bob New to the Webmaster
